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Warwickshire or West Midlands?

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Roger Turner
Torksey
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1 of 18  Tue 3rd Jan 2017 11:05am  
Member: Joined Aug 2014  Total posts:488

On 3rd Jan 2017 7:43am, Slim said: It's good to see that on this (presumably) old marker, it's the City of Coventry in the County of Warwick, quite rightly when all said and done. Wink
Thanks for pointing that out Slim. I was born and grew up in Coventry, Warwickshire, I have lived away for many years but always ensure that any correspondence I send to friends or relatives by post always addressing them to Warwickshire, as far as I know I have never had a non-delivery. How dare they deprive me of my birthright? Similarly I remain a subject of my Queen, I refuse to be a citizen of the EU Cheers
News, Media and Current Affairs - Warwickshire or West Midlands?
Wearethemods
Aberdeenshire
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2 of 18  Tue 3rd Jan 2017 6:55pm  
Member: Joined Jun 2013  Total posts:340

I wholeheartedly agree Roger, well said. All correspondence I post to Coventry, (mainly Christmas Cards these days) states 'Warwickshire' and like you I have never had a non-delivery. A very similar situation happens here where Banff and the surrounding Coastal villages and towns now, due to Boundary changes, come under Aberdeenshire named after a City on a totally different Coast line. The locals about me all address Banffshire as the County, as I promote when receiving mail from Coventry ! Maybe I should change my Forum location indicator to suit !
News, Media and Current Affairs - Warwickshire or West Midlands?
Slim
Another Coventry kid
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3 of 18  Wed 4th Jan 2017 7:49am  
Member: Joined Mar 2013  Total posts:392

I was once told by a policeman friend that all that is needed by the automated postal system is the number and the postcode, e.g. 13 BS9 1XZ anything else then presumably becoming superfluous and so ignored. The West Midlands is a fictitious county dreamt up by the bureaucrats in the early seventies. If you look at the map, to the east of Brum there's an appendage that sticks out like a malignant growth to swallow Solihull then Coventry. Everywhere to the north, south and east of Coventry is still Warwickshire. Some years ago they invented the County of Avon (according to the signs when driving south down the M5). It obviously didn't work as they later scrapped it. After all, Avon means river!
News, Media and Current Affairs - Warwickshire or West Midlands?
Wearethemods
Aberdeenshire
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4 of 18  Wed 4th Jan 2017 10:05am  
Off-topic / chat  

Helen F
Warrington
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5 of 18  Wed 4th Jan 2017 10:42am  
Member: Joined Mar 2013  Total posts:827

I believe that at one point Coventry was a county in its own right.
News, Media and Current Affairs - Warwickshire or West Midlands?
MisterD-Di
Sutton Coldfield
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6 of 18  Wed 4th Jan 2017 11:07am  
Member: Joined Sep 2011  Total posts:877

Coventry has far more in common with the West Midlands conurbation than with rural Warwickshire with its collection of small towns. The West Midlands County was created as an entity by the government in the early 70s for better administration and it worked remarkably well. I worked for the WMCC as well as other councils, including Coventry, and it was easily the most efficient and effective of any of them. It is correct that, prior to 1974, Coventry was a unitary authority and not part of Warwickshire in any meaningful sense other than for postal addresses, but it was too small to operate efficiently, and still is. There has always been a resistance to the West Midlands idea in Coventry as people perceived it as being 'part of Birmingham'. That was never true, of course, Birmingham was just one of the seven parts of the West Midlands. Coventry was no different from, say, Wolverhampton administratively. It all worked very well for 12 years and would have continued and thrived had it not been abolished for vindictive political dogma. However, we still see resistance to the joint authority principle despite the investment it will bring, simply because of this Birmingham paranoia. I have never felt part of Warwickshire, probably because I never have been. As for being somebody's 'subject' - not likely! Angry Absolutely I am a citizen and will always be so. I am subservient to no-one! Roll eyes
News, Media and Current Affairs - Warwickshire or West Midlands?
PhilipInCoventry
Holbrooks
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7 of 18  Wed 4th Jan 2017 12:34pm  
Moderator: Joined Apr 2010  Total posts:3885

On 4th Jan 2017 10:42am, Helen F said: I believe that at one point Coventry was a county in its own right.
Yes, County of Coventry recorded, the account is documented in the Victorian History volume eight, also that for a short period in history, the administrative capital for the UK. From Wiki, "By the 14th century, Coventry was an important centre of the cloth trade, and throughout the Middle Ages was one of the largest and most important cities in England. The bishops of Lichfield were often referred to as bishops of Coventry and Lichfield, or Lichfield and Coventry (from 1102 to 1541). Coventry claimed the status of a city by ancient prescriptive usage, was granted a charter of incorporation in 1345, and in 1451 became a county in its own right. The plays that William Shakespeare witnessed in Coventry during his boyhood or 'teens' may have influenced how his plays, such as Hamlet, came about."
News, Media and Current Affairs - Warwickshire or West Midlands?
flapdoodle
Coventry
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8 of 18  Wed 4th Jan 2017 2:10pm  
Member: Joined Nov 2010  Total posts:835

If you look at travel to work area, Coventry has far more in common with Warwickshire. The links between Birmingham are about the same number each way. Back in the 1970s Coventry had car factories that used components made in Birmingham and the two cities had more economic links. This is no longer true. Coventry needs better transport links between Warwickshire, especially Nuneaton, and South Warwickshire. The city's business parks were built in out of town locations to make them appeal to the skilled workforce that moved out to Warwickshire. This is one reason why the city centre has become a bit deserted in that respect. One key aspect of Friargate being a success is the KNUCKLE railway links and, looking further, better links to places like Oxford and Nottingham.
News, Media and Current Affairs - Warwickshire or West Midlands?
flapdoodle
Coventry
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9 of 18  Wed 4th Jan 2017 2:14pm  
Member: Joined Nov 2010  Total posts:835

Coventry wasn't ever capital of the UK. Parliament was held a couple of times at the Priory. This was when Parliament tended to move around to where the king summoned people (Parliament of the Devils was one). The county was a 'Country Corporate'. They were separate counties, but still retained links with the surrounding counties which retained some functions. Post-medieval they were irrelevant, just a title, and were mainly abolished when the parliamentary system was reformed. It was mainly used to allow important or wealthy towns (that have generally supported the Monarch!) their own powers.
News, Media and Current Affairs - Warwickshire or West Midlands?
AD
Allesley Park
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10 of 18  Wed 4th Jan 2017 7:31pm  
Member: Joined Aug 2011  Total posts:380

On 4th Jan 2017 7:49am, Slim said: The West Midlands is a fictitious county dreamt up by the bureaucrats in the early seventies....
ALL counties/shires/countries are 'fictitious' in the sense that they're drawn up arbitrarily by someone somewhere in history as a means of marking their territory, and will happily expand it further if they can. In the past they've usually been separated by large natural blockages - seas, rivers, mountains, forests etc - but these are not the obstacles to people they once were. A map from your childhood will look very different to one of today - countries will now exist that didn't then, others may have disappeared. Boundaries and names are always changing. Political wards are forever being altered due to gerrymandering. Coventry has expanded outwards quite a few times throughout its history - where most Coventrians now live would, historically, have been outside of Coventry. Growing up places like Keresley were put as "nr. Coventry" on any post we sent - not any more. And almost every river name means river - Trent, Severn, Avon, Thames, Exe. Same with things like mountains, hills, forests - almost all of them at one point just meant that in some long forgotten local dialect or language. I agree with both you and MrD-Di about Coventry's inclusion in WM or Warks as it looks odd, but I can also understand why it was done at the time. At the time there was far more interdependence between Coventry and Birmingham due to industry, and politically policies that would have been appropriate for WM and Coventry would have been less favoured in Warks due to a different socio-economic make-up. However, that link is far less important today and a city the size of Coventry should be the principal urban area of its region. However, it's not alone as Bradford is largely subservient to Leeds' needs and often misses out, but has a larger population than us. Ironically, the city of Manchester is actually pretty small but due to some clever PR has managed to wangle its way into being seen increasingly as the 'second city' due to 'Greater' Manchester. This is where I disagree with MrD-Di on the Birmingham 'paranoia' - much of the thinking towards WMCA in Birmingham IS based around it being become known as 'Greater Birmingham' in future to repel this Manchester threat. Their local media often refers to it a such, and even officials sometimes let it sneak in 'accidentally'. All the mayoral candidates are Birmingham-centric. Their desire for a new town around the HS2 station to make it a continuous urban area while vehemently opposing Coventry gaining any meaningful direct links to it show their long term aim. I'm not falling for it.
News, Media and Current Affairs - Warwickshire or West Midlands?
AD
Allesley Park
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11 of 18  Wed 4th Jan 2017 7:37pm  
Member: Joined Aug 2011  Total posts:380

On 3rd Jan 2017 11:05am, Roger Turner said: Similarly I remain a subject of my Queen, I refuse to be a citizen of the EU Cheers
Should you not swear allegiance to the King/Queen of Mercia rather than this expansionist 'England/Britain/United Kingdom' nonsense fronted by a bunch of Germans?
News, Media and Current Affairs - Warwickshire or West Midlands?
flapdoodle
Coventry
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12 of 18  Wed 4th Jan 2017 9:12pm  
Member: Joined Nov 2010  Total posts:835

Bradford's larger population is due to the fact surrounding towns are part of the Metropolitian Borough - large towns such as Bingley and Keighley are counted as Bradford, as are places like Haworth which are a considerable distance away. Coventry has tight borders, perhaps the tightest of any UK city. The better comparison is Coventry and its PUA.
News, Media and Current Affairs - Warwickshire or West Midlands?
Roger Turner
Torksey
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Thread starter
13 of 18  Wed 4th Jan 2017 11:31pm  
Member: Joined Aug 2014  Total posts:488

On 4th Jan 2017 7:37pm, AD said: Should you not swear allegiance to the King/Queen of Mercia rather than this expansionist 'England/Britain/United Kingdom' nonsense fronted by a bunch of Germans?
Yeah I do have a bit of a problem with the German connection, but I take comfort from the fact that the present Queen has a guid dose of Scottish in her (perhaps as much as Mr. Trump), now that can`t be bad. Cheers Cheers Cheers Cheers
News, Media and Current Affairs - Warwickshire or West Midlands?
MisterD-Di
Sutton Coldfield
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14 of 18  Thu 5th Jan 2017 12:00am  
Member: Joined Sep 2011  Total posts:877

On 4th Jan 2017 7:31pm, AD said: ....This is where I disagree with MrD-Di on the Birmingham 'paranoia'....
I think there is lots of paranoia about being regarded as part of Birmingham, but I do agree that it is being badly marketed as Greater Birmingham. The Metropolitan Authority was the West Midlands County Council, not the Greater Birmingham County Council. Manchester was the only one of the Mets that referred to a specific city, none of the others did. As I said before, Coventry was never regarded as part of Birmingham in those days so why should it be now? The mayoral election in May is for a West Midlands mayor, but seems to be a bit of a lash-up. Only the residents of the seven West Midlands Boroughs will elect the mayor, but they will chair the West Midlands Combined Authority which covers other areas too, including Nuneaton & Bedworth. We do need to get away from the misnomer of 'Greater Birmingham', although some people would always oppose it no matter what it was called and whatever the benefits.
On 4th Jan 2017 7:37pm, AD said: Should you not swear allegiance to the King/Queen of Mercia rather than this expansionist 'England/Britain/United Kingdom' nonsense fronted by a bunch of Germans?
Why on earth should we swear allegiance to any person, least of all someone who we have never elected? Roll eyes
News, Media and Current Affairs - Warwickshire or West Midlands?
Slim
Another Coventry kid
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15 of 18  Thu 5th Jan 2017 8:07am  
Member: Joined Mar 2013  Total posts:392

Let me clarify: I used the word fictitious facetiously (mischievously?). I had in mind all those people who maintain "the WM doesn't exist as far as I'm concerned, it was always Warwickshire and still is"; "back in the good old days..." etc. It has certainly prompted much thought and discussion. It seems to be human nature to be proud of one's roots, and belong ; the them-and-us is everywhere. It pervades the workplace, despite supposedly being a professional working environment, with all these youngsters coming in with degrees in HR, industrial relations or whatever; there's a whole army of them now, and they've made an industry out of it (jobs for the boys/girls). There are all these initiatives to have equality, fairness, stamp out bullying (even banter is out - it heads the list of behaviour that could be construed as bullying!). But the "club within the club" with its favoured membership and double standards still thrives. You will note from my tone that I do not consider myself a member of that club, and never have done. When I were a bairn, there were only Warwickshire. But (prior to privatisation) we had the ludicrous situation whereby our gas bills came from the West Midlands Gas Board, whilst electricity came from the East Midlands Electricity Board. As a youngster, I could not understand how we could be in two places at once! I repeatedly asked my parents to explain, but they could not. I like Birmingham. We regularly go shopping there. It's only £3.55 return from Tile Hill on the train, thanks in part to WM/Centro maybe. We live in Warwickshire, but the train from Leamington or Warwick costs more. My Dad's family were Brummies, and I worked in Brum in my twenties. Yet a lot of people look down their noses at Brum and its people; they hate the accent and consider themselves better. A colleague has a mild Brummie accent, e.g. "tuth" instead of "tooth", but gets incensed if anyone says he's a Brummie ("I'm from SOLIHULL", he asserts indignantly). People in London, Bristol and Devon have occasionally assumed I'm a Brummie. I have to point out that it's a different accent there, for example, the public transport in Coventry is a bus, whereas it's a buzz in Birmingham. A good example is Sutton Coldfield. Years ago, it was considered upmarket, rather like Solihull, I'm told, and that in recent years, it has been swallowed up by and is now part of Birmingham. I was recently at a Spice pub meet in the Bottle of Sack, and a local lady, a head teacher, confirmed this, and told me that the Sutton residents hated it, thought they deserved better than being part of Brum, and were convinced that it had devalued the Sutton Coldfield area and its property values.
News, Media and Current Affairs - Warwickshire or West Midlands?

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