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pixrobin
Canley
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286 of 365  Tue 7th Jul 2020 12:50am  
Member: Joined Mar 2014  Total posts:1143

We have very few circuses any more as all the clowns have gone into politics Wink Wink Wink
Coronavirus - COVID-19
3Spires
Leicestershire
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287 of 365  Tue 7th Jul 2020 10:32am  
Member: Joined Apr 2018  Total posts:110

Ah, at last, all is explained. As usual the Government's analysis is unfounded, certainly unscientific and 4+ months behind the curve. Apparently: The reason Boris was going around shaking hands and visiting hospitals was because he was a registered care home at the time; The reason the 'Travelling Housing Minister' was visiting three properties was because he was a registered care home at the time; The reason Dominic Cummings was off touring Barnard Castle and not 'sight-seeing' was because he was a registered care home at the time; His presence as a care home in the garden of No 10 had not been approved by the local planning and health authorities; The reason Johnson Snr was off on his invasion of Greece was because he was a registered care home at the time. So, the lesson for today is, if you are inclined to not obey 'procedures' - register yourself as a care home. Thumbs up Edited by member, 7th Jul 2020 11:28 am
Coronavirus - COVID-19
Slim
Another Coventry kid
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288 of 365  Wed 8th Jul 2020 10:26pm  
Member: Joined Mar 2013  Total posts:731

It seems that all these “regulations” pertaining to Covid-19 are not statutory, but merely advisory, i.e. “guidance”. In practice then, at one end of the scale businesses may choose to strictly enforce draconian measures to make customers feel like Alcatraz inmates, or, if they wish, totally ignore the guidelines; or choose to do anything in between the two extremes as they wish. This morning, I went into a coffee shop in town for a latte. Apart from the fact that both staff members were wearing a transparent face shields, there was nothing to indicate that coronavirus or pandemic had existed. No list of house rules, no floor markings, direction arrows, hand sanitiser, no name needed, just go up to the counter and order, then sit down wherever you want. Afterwards, I got the train into the city centre. This was my first train journey in four months. I had my breathing mask ready, and donned it for both the outward and return journey. Masks are clearly not mandatory, as about 25% of the rail users did not have one. On my walk from the station, I noticed that many businesses have closed, some permanently by the look of it. The Litten Tree pub was the first. The time was 1115, and the Coventry Cross does not open until 1200, so I ventured into the Wine Lodge (or Philip Larkin as it’s now called) for a swift half of Smiths. I couldn’t go into Impulse, a cheap and cheerful place, as it is boarded up for a complete refurb, and it looks as if it’s going up-market. A very pleasant, mature lady (well she called me darling) on sentry duty at the door of the Larkin asked me for my name and telephone number, which she entered into a laptop. Having ascertained that I was alone, she directed me to a small table where I had to sit. There’s a one way system to the bar, where they take your order, then you move down to the other end of the bar where the drinks are dispensed. I had intended to visit the dunny, but was horrified to see a man going into the ladies! I asked the barmaid if this was the norm, and apparently the gents was deliberately out of commission/taped off, presumably because the troughs are considered too close together for safety, so everyone had to use the ladies, but one at a time. I waited until the Cross was open! Similar arrangements applied at the Cross, except that the lady on the door was a bloke. The Worthington is highly recommended, and only £1.90 a pint. You won’t get that price anywhere in Warwickshire! Having got the train back home, I called in at my local for the first time since lockdown. The landlord told me that these house rules are indeed guidance only, and are interpreted differently by different public house chains.
Coronavirus - COVID-19
3Spires
Leicestershire
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289 of 365  Thu 9th Jul 2020 10:02am  
Member: Joined Apr 2018  Total posts:110

It is a legal requirement to wear a face covering on public transport and is enforceable by both the operator and the Police. (Source: UK Government Coronavirus outbreak FAQ'S: what you can and can't do)
Coronavirus - COVID-19
Slim
Another Coventry kid
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290 of 365  Thu 9th Jul 2020 4:16pm  
Member: Joined Mar 2013  Total posts:731

Well if it's law, it's being enforced on the same level as cycling on the pavements, in other words not at all. The offenders at train stations and on the trains are in the main male, aged 25-ish or under, and to go by appearances, some could argue that they don't understand the English language very well. I presume it applies to stations as well…? At a small town station (no name, no blame) this morning, the staff member was not wearing a mask. Before entering, I asked if I needed to put my mask on, and was told no, it's not compulsory. Contrast that with New Street later. As I entered, one of the numerous officials mumbled something at me which I had to ask him to repeat. It was difficult to understand him because a) his speech was muffled though his face mask, b) there was a fair amount of ambient noise, c) he did not speak loudly or clearly, and d) he had an accent which led me to believe that he did not learn English in this country. He motioned me towards a colleague at a desk who was handing out free face masks. I politely declined his offer as I had my own mask in my bag, which I donned. But a lot of unmasked people went unchallenged, like a young woman who walked past me whilst chummy was talking to me. It did make me wonder why he had stopped me! To make matters worse, a couple of police officers walked past me unchallenged (transport police). The young female officer was wearing a mask, but her male companion had no sign of a mask. Not a good example. Angry An old boss of mine, a maverick, used to say "rules are only for people who don't know what they're doing". Another thing. The train staff have now completely stopped checking tickets on the train. It's a fare-dodgers' paradise.
Coronavirus - COVID-19
PeterB
Mount Nod
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291 of 365  Thu 9th Jul 2020 10:38pm  
Member: Joined May 2014  Total posts:303

Hi Slim, In England, the regulations only require you to wear a face covering when on buses/trains, not at stations (Scotland & Northern Ireland also require them at stations, Wales does not require them at all). The guidance and FAQ are only recommendations and have no legal basis. Because it is the law (and not a condition of carriage as originally stated) it can only be enforced by the Police. Railway staff have been advised to "Engage and Encourage" people to wear masks. There are a number of exceptions to wearing masks and these include young children, railway staff and the police. People with certain medical conditions ("a reasonable excuse") do not have to wear masks and do not have to justify this unless charged by the police, so if they claim to be exempt rail staff have to accept this. Ticket checks are being re-introduced and Penalty Fares were re-instated from Monday (6th) (they had been suspended). Ticket barriers are being used when there are the staff to man them (not enough passengers to justify paying overtime). Several railway companies are not accepting cash on trains so there is no point in trying to sell tickets on the train. The Government are currently paying the companies to run the trains and covering the drop in fare income. There is little incentive on train companies to do more than the minimum on checking tickets. Peter.
Coronavirus - COVID-19
Slim
Another Coventry kid
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292 of 365  Thu 9th Jul 2020 11:12pm  
Member: Joined Mar 2013  Total posts:731

Thanks for clarifying that, Peter. It explains what is statutory and who is exempt. But the fact that staff and police are exempt makes a mockery of the whole mask-wearing thing, not to mention sets a bad example. The police and staff are just as likely to be carriers spreading their germs as anyone else. And it does annoy me that several passengers were sticking two fingers up and getting away with it. Probably regular passengers who know they are unlikely to be challenged or brought to book. The advice and rules and regulations and guidance and verbiage since last March, regarding Covid, are just like the new (long overdue, but now finally statutory) EICR regs (electrical installation condition report) – shambolically confusing and contradictory – they’ve had to backtrack and reword some parts, where one part contradicts another! I’m amazed that the trains and buses have been running a regular service with a vastly reduced number of passengers. I’ve seen whole buses and trains with not a single passenger during the lockdown period, when it was in full swing.
Coronavirus - COVID-19
Midland Red
Cherwell
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293 of 365  Fri 10th Jul 2020 10:38am  
Moderator: Joined Jan 2010  Total posts:5631

Just read this on a FB page replying to a complaint from a passenger in Banbury who pointed out several passengers were allowed on her Stagecoach bus with no face mask: I’m a bus driver. I hate people not wearing face masks/coverings but we’ve been told by our employer we are not aloud [sic] to stop people boarding our bus who wish not to wear a face mask or covering. If we do we could be disciplined for this. The only people who can stop them is the police or transport police so if you have a problem I would suggest get in contact with them. If you don’t like people not wearing them on the buses would suggest getting a taxi or other transport. Now politely stop your moaning, we’re doing the best as we can. I ventured by car into my local town yesterday - for a much needed haircut!!! - and was really surprised that the shopping centre appeared to be a mask-free zone. Even the elderly doing their shopping in the supermarket were without face coverings. I suppose, in my walk from the car to the barbers and back, I must have seen or past over 100 people - I think I counted eight masks, plus my own. Oh my
Coronavirus - COVID-19
Helen F
Warrington
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294 of 365  Fri 10th Jul 2020 11:42am  
Moderator: Joined Mar 2013  Total posts:2229

I'm venturing out for my first jolly. I'm visiting Dunham Massey, one of the National Trust places nearby. My friend is social distancing too but is a little too social and is more likely to catch the disease than I am, so we're wearing masks in the car to and from. For those wanting to venture to such places, you have to pre book a timed ticket which they release for the week ahead, each Friday. Hotly subscribed, I was in the queue for over an hour on the internet. I imagine the phone lines are even worse. If you're a member, have your membership card handy as you'll need to enter the number. Mask wearing feels silly but the evidence for their value has been there for over 10 years and widespread use of them might be the difference between semi normality and another, more deadlier wave in the autumn/winter.
Coronavirus - COVID-19
3Spires
Leicestershire
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295 of 365  Fri 10th Jul 2020 1:29pm  
Member: Joined Apr 2018  Total posts:110

Sadly, the recent posts above show why we will have further outbreaks and additional lockdowns - and god help us when the winter sets in. This 'playing chicken' attitude is so prevalent in both this country and the US - "Oh, my personal freedoms are being eroded." Latest research shows that the virus is AIR-BORNE. And as for the 'bus driver', no doubt he was sat behind a screen and I would suggest that if his explanation has any veracity then his employer should look forward to a visit from the Police armed with a warrant to view all the bus CCTV - or had we all forgotten about CCTV?
Coronavirus - COVID-19
Midland Red
Cherwell
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296 of 365  Fri 10th Jul 2020 5:27pm  
Moderator: Joined Jan 2010  Total posts:5631

Coronavirus - COVID-19
Helen F
Warrington
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297 of 365  Fri 10th Jul 2020 6:00pm  
Moderator: Joined Mar 2013  Total posts:2229

I didn't want to alarm people back in Feb but I knew that the advice on masks was flawed. The evidence was there back in 2007, at least, that masks of infected and uninfected people helped reduce spread.
Coronavirus - COVID-19
PeterB
Mount Nod
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298 of 365  Fri 10th Jul 2020 8:54pm  
Member: Joined May 2014  Total posts:303

I agree that correctly worn face masks will reduce the spread of Covid-19, but I worked in the chemical industry and the emphasis is on CORRECTLY worn. A loose fitting mask is of little use, air (and the virus droplets) will take the easy route through any gap. Also the most hazardous part of using PPE is taking it off without coming into contact with the contaminated surface. I agree with observation that only 10% of people are wearing face masks. I would suggest that only 1% are carrying any hand sanitiser to clean their hands after touching the mask (and if you keep it in a bag you have to open, you are defeating the objective as you have to close the contaminated bag with your clean hands). We used to do microbiological sampling at work, wearing surgical face masks and gloves - and being really careful, but we still got failures that passed on re-sampling. If you add in disposable masks being put re-worn and washable masks being washed at low temperatures, the effectiveness is reduced to the point that masks can become a breeding ground for the virus (warm humid air is ideal). Disposable masks should be put in a bag and binned, but masks (even reusable ones) are now littering the streets like fast food wrappers. Face masks will work if people use them correctly. The people wearing them now are the people who want to wear them and several of them are not making a very good job of it. If you add in people who don't want to wear them then people will be wearing a disposable mask all week and putting it in their pocket when not wearing it they will achieve little. Supermarket car parks will become littered with them. Shops seem to be maintaining social distance without huge queues outside so I can't see them wanting to go from 2m to wearing masks as they could loose more customers than they would gain (and risk having to confront customers). In pubs and cafes they will be off more than they are on. The WHO states that "[The] virus is primarily transmitted between people via respiratory droplets and contact routes. Droplet transmission occurs when a person is in close contact (within 1 metre) with an infected person and exposure to potentially infective respiratory droplets occurs, for example, through coughing, sneezing or very close personal contact... " so masks will only have a significant benefit if closer than 1m. Boris seems to be a convert, but we will have to wait and see what Prime Minister Cummings thinks. Personally I think they will come in if the number of infections stops falling, but only because the Government has to be seen to be doing something and they won't want to close the shops & pubs again. Peter.
Coronavirus - COVID-19
Slim
Another Coventry kid
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299 of 365  Fri 10th Jul 2020 10:35pm  
Member: Joined Mar 2013  Total posts:731

One or two readers have written to the Times, observing how people, i.e. strangers encountered in public places, are responding to the guidelines about distancing, and awarding marks accordingly. Top marks are for keeping well away, moving to the other side of the pavement or ducking into a driveway until passed, down to zero marks for not moving out the way at all and rudely barging past, in some cases glancing bodies. Alas, the older the person, the more respect and distance given. It saddens me that that is exactly the experience I have had, especially on the trains. Older people abide by the rules. Everyone I have seen on public transport deliberately not wearing a mask has been male and under the age of 25. Quite a few of the culprits had black facial hair, as if somehow that exempted them. As a (relatively) old fogey, I’m allowed to say “no respekk”. Sad
Coronavirus - COVID-19
argon
New Milton
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300 of 365  Fri 10th Jul 2020 11:41pm  
Member: Joined Jun 2016  Total posts:354

Following the example of the intrepid Helen we decided to risk journeying into far flung places today. We drove to Burley - for those who don't know, a small village in the New Forest. It was a pleasant day and we decided to walk as there were not too many visitors. Most people behaved sensibly and kept their distance, of course there were exceptions to social distancing but this was from the donkeys roaming the streets. Some donkeys had no interest in communal safety and approached anyone, probably attention seeking. You could tell them to keep their distance but they ignored it and some had the audacity to bray. Having lived in Burley in the 1990's we were not surprised at the antisocial behaviour of the donkeys as we understood that they don't know any better. It is a debatable point whether you can pick up Covid from animals who have been in contact with infected humans but why take the chance. The afternoon was a relief from the isolation and it was good to see visitors returning and a more relaxed atmosphere than the last few months. We may venture out again if the weather stays fine but are still cautious. Edited by member, 10th Jul 2020 11:43 pm
Coronavirus - COVID-19

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