Crusaders, Knights Templar

I would very much like to start this topic as born and bred in Coventry with all its medieval churches statues and gems, and enjoyable experience of living among this background as a child that led me to more experiences that could not have been predicted.

Coventry with all its background, could only make a boy wonder about the knights in their shiny armour and swords. The old churches, the stories, Lady Godiva etc, Warwick Castle, Caludon and Kenilworth. At 18 billeted in Dover Castle for a few nights, with its long history, then on to the Holy Land, to see all the sights I had heard of as a boy. I had heard and read of the Crusaders, Knights, and Templars meaning the Temple. It was the French Knights that founded the Templar Order sometime after the battle of Antioch. in 1097. Jerusalem followed in 1099 I volunteered for a special duty for the rumour was, the billet in an old castle, on a glorious sandy beach half way between Tel Aviv and Gaza. but few were interested in its history. the only person was the padre. We were but a few yards from the old biblical town of Ashkelon (padre said) sometime in the late twenties someone had done an archivist 'dig', and left a lot of artefacts on small rock ledges, in a large hollow (later, is a story that even Dan Brown could not of thought up) bits of old sword, shield, and chains, vases and numerous objects. dating back a thousand or more years (but a tragedy occurred). I took advantage of my forces stint, visiting statues, pyramids, biblical places etc. But I was finding a lot of love in historical scenes and reading as well as cruelty.

Dan Brown made the Rosslyn Church and the Knights Templar famous (fiction), but with a little imagination a good writer could do the same for Coventry. Look at the real facts: The Rosslyn church had not been built until after the K.T. had been long ago 'disbanded'. The K.T. did not last as long as the Coventry Cross. The K.T. were a mercenary army, to protect religious travellers under the guise of the Church. If modern education has us struggling to know the true understanding of the Coventry Cross, then how much harder for people of centuries ago to understand the K.T. or other orders. People believe what they want to believe and not true facts, and religion is a volatile argument in itself. Now if you believe I'm bragging then that's OK by me, but I saw Palestine when it had hardly moved in history, a land of mountains, mainly rocky terrain, donkeys, goats and sheep. The only modern streets were in Tel Aviv. And it didn't take much imagination to see why they needed miracles and the like for their sanity. That has all passed by now, modernisation has taken it all away. The places I saw as biblical are now a Dan Brown show, glorified tourism at its height. I have the photographs to prove it to me. Coventry had a Mayor who made such a welcome for the Prince Regent who was staying at Coombe Abbey that the Prince conferred the honour of Knighthood on him, except they could not find a sword for some time. The sword is now in Warwick Museum. Think what a good fiction story a writer could make of that.

Morning Kaga, I've been to Roslyn Chapel!

I'd imagine that any secret knightly order connected to Coventry would be about St Mary. Which is kind of fitting given the number of women who were influential on the city's progress. They could preserve the secret location of where all the early cathedral's riches went, other than Henry VIII. St Osburga, Lady Godiva, Margaret of Anjou, Empress Matilde, Queen Isabella, the Bottoner ladies, Queen Elizabeth I, Princess Elizabeth.

Good morning Wearethemods, what a beautiful day. Melrose Abbey, Scotland, 25 July 1314. The ledgers, chronicles, letters and memoranda had all been collected from the libraries of the 'order of the temple' from every corner of the globe had been brought here from its origins to its end. To be chronicled in one seamless cloak. Unfortunately I never visited either place.

Hi Kaga There's a programme about Rosslyn on BBC Four tomorrow (26th) at 23.30 (1 hour duration): Rosslyn Chapel "A History in Stone" - presented by Helen Rosslyn (her husband's ancestor built the Chapel)!

Thank you, 3Spires, but as I'm having an operation on the 27th I will miss it. Medieval Historians say Rosslyn Church has no basis in fact to the Knights Templar. Melrose Abbey, Scotland, has more to do with the Knights Templar - Hugh de Payens was a foremost French knight in the Crusades. I once stayed in a Crusader fort/castle as I thought, but Lawrence of Arabia said there were no Crusader forts in Palestine, but it certainly was around a thousand years old and had many battle scars, hence my interest in the Knights Templar, etc. It is hard to find evidence of any English knight taking part in the real first crusade. Nearer to home is Hadrians Wall. A bronze head of Hadrian was found in the River Thames during the 19th century, now on show in a London Museum. This is an interesting historic man.

You are very welcome Kaga and all the best for the operation. ps The prog might appear on iPlayer.

I understand that there may well have been a Knights Templar Manor House at Bermuda, Nuneaton.