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PhilipInCoventry
Holbrooks
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1 of 511  Thu 30th Jan 2020 10:32pm  
Moderator: Joined Apr 2010  Total posts:4247

Hi all, This is chat, & chat only *************************** The global pandemics that occur from time to time, so worrying for everyone, mostly come about when human immunity, or disease resistance, is faced with a new bacteria combination. Prevalent particularly if a bacterial virus infection is able to jump species. Most animal gut processors are used to a particular dietary mix. We humans have adapted to a consumption mix of meat, fish, fruit & veg. One golden rule is that we don't eat a meat that itself is composed of meat consumption. In other words we don't eat dog, cat, or any other meat eater. Cattle have a gut that is designed to eat pasture, so when imported cattle feed was introduce several decades ago that contained a meat content, we gave our cattle a nerve disease that is commonly called "madcow". Poor environmental conditions with any intense animal rearing, like reared fowl in China, gave us bird flu, once the virus jumped species. I don't pretend to know what's going on, or understand more than that of a retired accountant. The reports are of a China cult of consuming bats, as the start of this latest world pandemic. That breaks the basic rule that I was taught in my first year in adult education, we don't eat a meat eater. What do our members think on this, maybe I am wrong!
News, Media and Current Affairs - Coronavirus - COVID-19
Helen F
Warrington
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2 of 511  Fri 31st Jan 2020 8:20am  
Moderator: Joined Mar 2013  Total posts:2615

Feeding meat to animals we intend to eat isn't a great idea, although we have done it for as long as we've farmed pigs. This resulted in a variety of animal epidemics like swine fever, foot and mouth disease and BSE (mad cow). Poultry will also eat a varied diet, although it tends to be insects and amphibians. One source of infection is through bird droppings. Vegetables and rice can be infected with a variety of diseases like salmonella from bird or animal waste. Contrary to logic, intensive farmed birds are far safer than (true) free range or wild ones because they have weak immune systems. If they catch things they die, whereas healthy birds live to pass on their infections and harbour those diseases silently. Non free range birds are far less likely to be infected by wild birds. Close contact with birds and animals aids the transfer of diseases to humans and often it's not the consumption of those creatures that infects people, but the butchery, skinning or husbandry that allows the diseases time to figure out a new host. MERS for instance (similar to SARS) is connected to the care of camels, especially young ones. Anthrax is connected to animal skins. China is often the source of new diseases because they eat all sorts of wild creatures and butcher them in very unsanitary conditions. You may have heard of 'wet markets', which are essentially both market and slaughter house. Practices there create both splashes and aerosols of animal fluids. This vastly increases the chance a disease will make the jump to humans. SARS supposedly came from civet cats at just such a market. Ferrets are used in western science because they very closely resemble human respiratory systems. Pigs' systems are also very close to human ones and are considered a vector animal - mixing animal and bird diseases and creating ones that are pre adapted to humans. Bats are the index creature for a number of diseases including rabies. Normally they tend to infect humans because they roost in human and animal dwellings but the Chinese had to go one better and chop them up. This coronavirus is the direct result of killing wild animals. It links people to novel diseases. HIV is supposed to have jumped to humans from wild apes. This virus doesn't seem as deadly as SARS or MERS or bird flu but is much easier to catch. The unusual nature of it might mean that other animals (like pets and normal farm animals) might also catch the disease. Every creature that catches the disease and then passes it on, increases the chance it could mutate in new ways. It might even become more deadly, although there's no evidence yet to suggest it will. Our best bet is if the existing cases can be eradicated, although it's almost too late given the number of cases and the range of additional countries affected. Most at risk, are those with existing health issues, the elderly and pregnant women. In the 1918 flu pandemic, people from historically isolated communities (eg Australian aborigines) were harder hit but I'm not sure if that would still be relevant. The positive from all this is that it is possible to stop diseases. Annual colds and flu spread because we do almost nothing to prevent them. During the warm months those diseases decline because they don't favour warmth. With good discipline we could wipe it out (and a lot of colds and flu at the same time).
News, Media and Current Affairs - Coronavirus - COVID-19
Dreamtime
Perth Western Australia
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3 of 511  Fri 31st Jan 2020 5:33pm  
Member: Joined Jan 2010  Total posts:3479

Philip and Helen, I am reading a lot of sense there and covers a very wide area, thank you both. In the news a few days ago here in Perth, it showed us a Chinese lady tucking into a designer rat. I say designer as it was cooked in a special sauce presumably for human consumption. Crispy cockroaches are also on the menus, so I dread to think of other livestock available. Then to see live dogs held in cages ready for the cooking pot.... need I say more. The RSPCA would have a field day in China. Adding to that, that's their culture so it will never change.
News, Media and Current Affairs - Coronavirus - COVID-19
PhilipInCoventry
Holbrooks
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Thread starter
4 of 511  Mon 10th Feb 2020 7:13pm  
Moderator: Joined Apr 2010  Total posts:4247

Hi all, An almost inevitable spread of this latest of infections, as I type, eight confirmed UK cases, with more Brits confirmed, in other countries. I've listened to a host of medics on the wireless where the consensus of opinion is that our own personal hygiene is paramount. Face masks are only of limited value, as they must be changed very frequently. Once a mask becomes damp or humid, its effectiveness reduces considerably. Our hand washing appears to be the number one defence. Soap & hot water, washed frequently, our fingernails & hand crevices in particular. This particular virus is better destroyed with soap & hot water, rather than alcoholic dispensers. When my Pam was diagnosed with her serious cancer illness, I was forced to pay far more attention to my hygiene habits, which includes constant hand washing. Let's hope that the expertise of our Health Secretary's measures, along with their detection & isolation measures, result in a reduced UK infection epidemic.
News, Media and Current Affairs - Coronavirus - COVID-19
Kaga simpson
Peacehaven, East Sussex
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5 of 511  Tue 11th Feb 2020 4:28pm  
Member: Joined Sep 2014  Total posts:3791

Sir Mark Sykes died of Spanish flu 1919, buried and sealed in a lead coffin. With permission from his relatives, in 2008 he was exhumed in the hope of finding viral traces of the flu that could be used as vaccine like for new forms. Like many soldiers of WWI, I wonder if they exhume again how ironic it might be if he turned out to be a Chinaman.
News, Media and Current Affairs - Coronavirus - COVID-19
PhilipInCoventry
Holbrooks
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Thread starter
6 of 511  Wed 12th Feb 2020 1:23pm  
Moderator: Joined Apr 2010  Total posts:4247

Hi all, Whenever I share an issue, whether it's totally out of my grasp like this current virus scare, or if it's an issue that I do have experience with, I do try to tell it as it is. So I am delighted to copy this statement from an expert. "But John Oxford, emeritus professor of virology at Queen Mary University London, said he thought the virus had a weakness - and people's actions could help slow transmission. "It's not about wearing a mask - it's less of the hand-shaking, touching and kissing," he said, speaking on the Today programme. " So let's wash our hands like never before, constantly. That's my plea.
News, Media and Current Affairs - Coronavirus - COVID-19
Dreamtime
Perth Western Australia
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7 of 511  Wed 12th Feb 2020 3:45pm  
Member: Joined Jan 2010  Total posts:3479

On 12th Feb 2020 1:23pm, PhilipInCoventry said: So let's wash our hands like never before, constantly. That's my plea.
I totally agree with Philip, our local supermarket has a hand wipes dispenser at the entrance and we always use it and notice the waste bin is always full. It's a good habit to get into. We wipe the trolley handle as well as our hands.
News, Media and Current Affairs - Coronavirus - COVID-19
PhilipInCoventry
Holbrooks
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Thread starter
8 of 511  Fri 28th Feb 2020 9:30am  
Moderator: Joined Apr 2010  Total posts:4247

Morning all, Just a trial topic, especially with the current virus news. It's not to replace historical hospital topics or past posts. We may merge this back into the sorry state topic if needed.
News, Media and Current Affairs - Coronavirus - COVID-19
Helen F
Warrington
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9 of 511  Fri 28th Feb 2020 9:48am  
Moderator: Joined Mar 2013  Total posts:2615

Thanks Philip. I've a few things in mind that perhaps individuals should think about, now that a pandemic is almost inevitable. I shop online periodically with Morrisons. I've just signed up for unlimited deliveries (so long as you spend £40 a time on shopping) for Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday for £35 (for a year) because I can see home deliver prices shooting up if people choose to stay away from the shops. I'm also hoping that pass holders would get priority if slots get in short supply. Worth a thought. Home delivery is quite useful for bulky or heavy items, and frozen stuff in very hot weather since the delivery vans have fridges and freezers to keep stuff at the right temperatures. Edited by member, 28th Feb 2020 9:55 am
News, Media and Current Affairs - Coronavirus - COVID-19
OddSock
Coventry
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10 of 511  Fri 28th Feb 2020 10:04am  
Member: Joined Mar 2018  Total posts:55

I'm no expert in this field and so, like many others I imagine, I listen to the various news reports and interviews with relevant medical boffins with interest. The other day, whilst listening to the radio (showing my age!), I was interested to hear one such boffin dismiss the wearing of face masks! Her opinion was that many people wear them for the wrong reasons, assuming it will prevent you contracting an airbourne virus, like coronavirus. She went on to say that a face mask should be worn to protect others from YOUR infection - ie: your coughing/sneezing, and the infected droplets that releases into the air! However, that said, she warned that this too can create issues - saying that a build up of these droplets can moisten the face mask, which itself can become uncomfortable to wear. In 'adjusting' the mask on your face, she claimed you're more likely to touch infected parts of the mask, and so then pass on the infection with your now-contaminated hands!! if ever you fancied a trip to Antarctica, now seems like a good time to start packing your suitcase!
OddSock: Particularly interested in the family surnames Cowley, Shale, & Pratt in Coventry!

News, Media and Current Affairs - Coronavirus - COVID-19
Helen F
Warrington
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11 of 511  Fri 28th Feb 2020 11:16am  
Moderator: Joined Mar 2013  Total posts:2615

OddSock, I know where they're coming from with this but it's a slightly flawed logic. Definitely handwashing in soap and water is the best protection all round, use sanitizer if you can't use soap, followed by not touching your mouth with potentially contaminated hands. The act of wearing a mask stops you touching your mouth. What the 'no mask' argument assumes is that the mask wearers will infect themselves taking the mask off and that many types of mask offer low protection anyway. But they do offer some protection and you can follow safety advice taking masks off. Two people wearing masks with one infected, offers two layers of mask between those people. Masks keep you alert to the risk of infection. The better the mask (especially the fit to the face), the better the protection. However it's reaching moot point because masks are in increasingly short supply and rapidly rising in price. For those who work and mix with many different people, it would be nigh impossible, simply due to the number of masks you'd need. But those who can and want to limit their contacts, it might be a viable choice. It's the government's job to try and protect everyone, so advice may not always be best for an individual. Government advice may even change anyway. If you can keep from infecting yourself handling the mask and you've got them, by all means use them, especially if you end up caring for someone with the virus. Doing things like reusing masks is much more risky and if you consider doing that, you need to read up on the dangers. Tests have not yet been done on how long this virus survives outside the body and under what conditions (surface type, temperature, humidity).
News, Media and Current Affairs - Coronavirus - COVID-19
Kaga simpson
Peacehaven, East Sussex
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12 of 511  Fri 28th Feb 2020 1:20pm  
Member: Joined Sep 2014  Total posts:3791

But isn't it ironic that we only washed our hands at mealtimes, we would touch horses and cows, then eat an apple, or sandwich, never gave it a thought to wash hands. Even worse, we would go muck-spreading, no one washed hands, no one was fussy, we built up our immune system on small doses of animal bacteria I believe during the war there was foot and mouth in Warwickshire, it was ignored, soldiers were traipsing all over the place, it died out. I can't remember one kid in our street ever visiting a hospital, other than Whitley, which we blamed on swimming in the canal. You keep washing your hands and you wash away the immune bacteria from your body, but if you didn't build it as a kid then you're prone to everything, but we do travel a lot more now, so we ask for what we get. (I'll wait for the flack.)
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PhilipInCoventry
Holbrooks
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Thread starter
13 of 511  Fri 28th Feb 2020 3:13pm  
Moderator: Joined Apr 2010  Total posts:4247

Afternoon all, Though the fear of this current virus infection, we can only do what we can do. As I have explained, I've been forced to give more attention to my own hygiene, so as to minimise passing infections of any kind onto Pam. We have a cat that we fuss & fondle, a risk point of infection, so personal hygiene is even more of an issue. We are social society, we need each other, so isolation is my last resort. I'm convinced that as well as frequent hand washing, our diet is such a huge factor. Fresh fruit & veg are tops for keeping our immune system up & running. Some foods are rated higher than others for stimulation of our immune systems, but that is possibly marginal. Once the virus is in general circulation, which I believe is likely, it's how our own system handles the infection. A long in the tooth nurse, whose experience I value greatly, told me to increase my fluid intake. We take for granted our UK good services, drinking water, sanitation & so on. The areas of flooding do give me special concern.
News, Media and Current Affairs - Coronavirus - COVID-19
scrutiny
coventry
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14 of 511  Fri 28th Feb 2020 4:39pm  
Member: Joined Feb 2010  Total posts:754

Hello Kaga, here comes the flack. Wink When working in a small factory in the 70s we had the pleasure of having a labourer who never spoke to anyone but was always talking to someone. A rabbit maybe? On the morning tea break the canteen would bring round the bacon butties, sausage rolls etc which always went down well. One morning I was a bit late washing my hands and met the labourer in the toilet - he used the break to clean the toilets because no one was usually in there. He was cleaning the toilets but held a bacon butty in his right hand, then he noticed fag ends in the urinal. Changing the bacon butty to his left hand he then scooped up all the fag ends from the urinal channel with his right hand and threw them down the toilet. Flicking his fingers to get rid of the water (urine) he then transferred the bacon butty back to his right hand and carried on eating it. Although it turned me up, that labourer never had a day off and never suffered bad health, not even a cold. Oh my
News, Media and Current Affairs - Coronavirus - COVID-19
Kaga simpson
Peacehaven, East Sussex
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15 of 511  Sat 29th Feb 2020 12:05pm  
Member: Joined Sep 2014  Total posts:3791

Scrutiny, Loved your flack, loved your reply, love talking about old Cov and its people.
News, Media and Current Affairs - Coronavirus - COVID-19

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